Log:Forbidden Knowledge

2021/07/09 Wade Magda Artemis 1

In Lowtown...

Artemis walks out of the bookstore like a triumphant warrior. She has braved the aisles of books and hunted her prey, which she now carries in a plastic bag. She may be about to bellow something like 'Freedom' based on the excitement on her face to escape that store with her prize.

Wade was waiting outside the bookstore, since it was kind of busy inside today. He looks over to Artemis, "Find what you needed?"

"Ah hah! Aye! A few books on the history of this nation, and others. I hope Wayne will find them to his liking," Artemis smiles to Wade. "Thank ye for thy advice. I wished for it to be a surprise for my Beloved."

Wade smiles. "I'm sure he'll be very happy with them. Can I see exactly what you bought?"

Magda walks slowly along the street, looking as though she isn't watching where she's going -- mostly because, well, she isn't. Most of the time she manages to steer around people (and not walk into the street when there's a vehicle coming), but on occasion she'll bump into something -- usually something like a tree or a wood post. She'll lift a hand to ward the thing off, then continue on her way, though 'spotting' Artemis and Wade will finally bring her head up. Oh -- a bookstore. That makes ... no sense whatsoever. She draws closer, curious.

Artemis nods and reaches into her bag, producing the selection for him to see. Two of the books are centered on the time period they visited when the timestream was altered. There's another one on life and times of the 18th century, and one military-focused.

Wade nods as he looks at the books. "I'd read those. So...I'm sure he would too." He smiles.

Artemis looks absolutely deligthed. "Most wonderful! This pleases me greatly," she smiles, enthusiastic about her selections now. "Next, I must procure tickets to the Nationals for us," she comments, then looks thoughtful. "Hmmm. Mayhaps ye would like to join us? Thy lady love is also welcome if she be in town," she offers, not wanting to exclude Wade. Her keen hears hear the collision sounds of Magda versus obstacles and looks her way curiously.

Wade smiles. "If it's a date, I won't intrude. But thank you for the invite." He looks over in the direction of Magda as well.

Magda, approaching, says, "All right, so ... while I can easily see a Starguard agent as being a reader, as all good military officers ought to be, I see the bag in Artemis's hand, which suggests that the book-buying is on her part. Will someone explain this oddity to me?"

Artemis thinks on that. "Hmmm. I do not know if it be a date. But why would it be intrusive?" She laughs at a sudden amusement. "We will not be making passionate love in the stands. Wayne hath informed me such things are discouraged on Urth." Still amused, she looks to Magda. "They be gifts for my Beloved. Why be this an oddity?"

Wade smiles slightly, "She's implying that you don't read much, Artemis."

"Nonsense! I have been known to read for my amusement," Artemis denies this assumption about her. "I may be no scholar, but I DO read."

Magda gives a soft 'ah!' of enligthenment at Artemis's words, then slides her gaze sideways at Wade. "/That/ didn't need to be said." She pauses, then sighs. "An accurate reflection of my thought, I have to confess, though." Looking up (and for her, Artemis is quite a way up) she says, "My apologies."

Wade smiles. "I think...it did need to be said. Artemis feels that humans dance around 'the truth' too much. I think she appreciates blunt honesty more than humans do."

Magda mmmms. "There is something to be said for that," she concedes. "Not usually anything good," she adds with a sigh, "but something. One can win the war but lose the peace."

Artemis laughs in amusement. "I know now that hoomans be a shy race, cut off from their passions save in the most private and comfortable instances. Though I do appreciate Wayne being sure I understand things," she smiles. She looks back to Magda. "Hmmm...what peace hath thee lost? Your mind does not seem to be here."

Magda smiles up (again -- long way) at Artemis. "Not mine, just in general. As for my mind not being quite here, I'm ... mmm. Synthesizing. I've done a fair amount of reading in the last while; it's ... a lot to assemble."

Wade nods slowly. "What have you been reading up on?"

Magda exhales slowly, lifting her fingers to rake the tips through the pulled-down base of her hair. "I suppose the best way to say it is simply ... physics." She smiles a little, almost grim about it. "Lots of it."

Artemis nods sagedly. "Ah. And it hath shattered thy mind. Some schools of knowledge are known for such."

Magda laughs -- hard. Hard enough to stagger her, and for her to gesture herself into a seat, and to keep /on/ laughing enough to give rise to the thought that y'know, maybe her mind /has/ shattered.

Wade raises his brows as he watches Magda, "Are you okay?"

"See? The truth be too much for some minds to endure," Artemis is convinced she was right.

Magda continues to laugh uproariously for a good two or three minutes, only finally simmering down after tears have been pouring down her face. "Oh, that's -- that was just what I needed, Artemis, thank you. Never let it be said you cannot bring out someone else's sense of humor, even if your own is exceptionally straight-forward. Yes," she says to Wade, "I'm good. No," she adds to Artemis, "my mind isn't shattered. But that's an exceptionally amusing way to view it."

Artemis smiles kindly. "I am most heartened to see thou hath not lost thy mind to forbidden knowledge. It be not unheard of in the vast realms."

Magda mmmms, turning her hands over to be palm-up and generating an image of ... well, physics, from string and brane models swiftly outwards to quarks and atoms, thence to stars and galaxies. "Science is never forbidden," she says softly. "Just a difficult prize to acquire."

Artemis plants her hand on her hips and regards Magda. "Even in Urth's history, thou do not recognize some knowledge be better left untouched? Science unbridled can lead to the downfall of civilizations."

Another brief laugh -- not the full-throated joyous belly-laugther of before -- comes from Magda. "Of what are you speaking? The Hittite discovery and smelting of iron? The develoment of steel in Iberia, Phoenecia, India, and China? The creation of Greek fire, or the discovery of gunpowder? Perhaps the power of steam -- or of the atom. No, Artemis, /science/ is never best left untouched. It is the unrestrained and /unethical/ use of science which can be the downfall of a civilization; it is never the knowledge itself, chest-beating warnings in fiction against such to the contrary. Frankenstein and Dr. Jeckyll voted for superstition and the worship of authority figures -- generally in some form of the Christian faith -- over the knowledge and understanding of fact. Science has long been in a battle to the death with superstition, and only slowly does it advance its cause."

Artemis regards Magda like she's being foolish. Or mad. "I speak of the dark things the mortal mind contrives with science. I speak of the atom and worse. There will always be mortals tempted to use something for ill. The most dangerous of knowledge should be kept from thy kind, as one would a blade from a child. Ultimately, one of thee will wield it to the utter devastation of many, for there be no such thing as a flawless mortal, with unfailing ethics and restraint. SOME knowledge must be forbidden."

Magda nods with grave acknowledgement. "And yet," she says, "only by cutting herself can the child give the blade the respect it deserves; wisdom that was old when I first heard it from my own mother. I don't disagree with you on the fact that caution and restraint is necessary, Artemis, and not just on the part of one, but on the part of many. That is why the /use/ of knowledge is looked at so very carefully by a scientist's peers -- and a politician's peers as well. And yes, problems can be had -- but a madman truly bent on eradicating humanity could have done so many, many times throughout history. A virulent disease has long been -- and is still -- the most likely way for humanity to end, and these days, such things can be created." She lifts her hand palm-up again. "This is the knowledge being misused, and which -- in nearly every case -- can only be cured by using the same knowledge wisely. Just like," she says softly, "a blade in the hands of a child."

"Yes...and from what I hath been told, such madmen -have- done so, many, many times, the scope of their malice amplified by pursuit to discover new methods of destruction through scientific invention." Artemis shakes her head, still disagreeing with Magda's metaphor. "Some children do not learn. And what if the child takes the blade and cuts only others with it, having avoided cutting themselves through natural skill or fortune? For your point to be true, mortals would have to be unflawed and all driven by reason. They are not."

"Of course they are not," agrees Magda, "nor is any being, living or dead, physical or pure spirit, that has ever existed. The very gods are imperfect; would you claim perfection, Artemis? For I know you have admitted to not only imperfection in an aspect of existence, but in decision and action." Her hands lift once again, showing ... a tree? No, a timeline. "If some do not learn, then they are educated -- or prevented from harming others again." There are flickers of wars in there, of chariots overpowering spears, of iron swords smashing through weaker bronze, of disciplined armies demolishing undisciplined hordes. "Your argument is not new, Artemis. It would have had us never discovering a way to develop cures. Of reaching into space. Of harnessing the power of oil or steam or coal, of the wind, of ... well, anything.

"Society exists for the betterment of all, and though all of them are flawed, they mostly work, and progress the lives of people ... for the better. And when they don't -- when," and Magda creates an image of a certain German dictator shaking his fist, "the society works to destroy part of itself, and parts of the rest of the world, then those who would not stand aside rise in opposition."

She smiles up at the Godflora. "Heroes," she says softly, "need not have powers."

Artemis's eyes widen faintly at the barb at her alleged flaws and imperfections. She takes a sharp breath to quickly refute Magda's claim against her, but finds her words refuse to form. Looking frustrated, she closes her mouth and narrows her eyes as she's forced into self-reflection. The Ashildr loathes being put in such a position. She finds a way around it by not addressing it at all. The cheater!

She points to the image of Hitler. "Ah, this tyrant I know. The one with the stain upon his upper lip. Friend Wayne hath educated me on this while watching hooman television. Truly some mortals rose to the occasion and proved themselves heroes without powers. And some mortals proved themselves...what do you call them here? Ah, devils. Science extended the scale of his vile reign. Rather than a household or a village, his villainy touched the world. A generation lost in that era! Tell me ye think scientific achievements of weaponry should not be denied to one such as him!"

"A mustache," Magda murmurs a correction on the 'stain' remark, but listens to the rest. "Science? No, science extended his reign but little; it was his oratorial capabilities, as well as the illusion of knowing best and offering people what they thought they wanted, that enabled him to do so terribly much -- and such terrible things. I will say that he /did/ seek something in science, a great destructive power with which to win the war at a stroke, but the best scientists had long ago fled his nation, because he hated intelligence and the questioning of authority."

She sits for a moment, then says quietly, "And it was not some, but many. Not tens or hundreds, not even thousands, but millions. Fighting against one who would say," and here she fixes her gaze upon that of the Godflora, "that they knew who was worthy and who was not. Who deserved life, who deserved death, on only the religion they chose to follow, the color of their skin.

"Aye, his villainy touched the world, and in that time when we were, though I was not yet born, /he/ was. And this I knew, and knew I could stop it ... but knew that there were many reasons that I should not." She inhales slowly, then exhales. "It may be the most difficult thing I have ever done. You see, his villainy, and the response of the world to it, revealed to us the depth of evil that lies within -- well, within each of us. And though his name has become synonymous with horrors, Artemis, there are entire peoples -- nations -- who have sworn 'never again', and who keep that very oath in mind, even when we are lost amongst the stars, are witness to such an atrocity, and rend their barren sister-planet to demonstrate that It. Will. Not. Happen. On. Our. Watch."

Artemis regards Magda carefully with a look of respect that she restrained herself from altering the timeline. Had the Godflora known, she might not have been able to avoid trying to change it due to her oaths. "I be most impressed that you did not slay that tyrant, given the chance." She folds her arms over her chest and ponders Magda's points. "There...is truth in thy words," she sighs, relenting her point. Though she still holds on to her stubborn beliefs.

She gestures absently to Magda. "And what be it of physics that had thee blundering about into objects in thy path?"

Magda's lips twitch upwards at the careful regard; it's even money that she can guess the reason for Artemis's examination. "Yes, well. We were there to shift the timeline back to what it was supposed to be; it would not have done to change it to something else entirely, would it?"

Her fingers and hands manipulate the images as if manipulating the light itself -- which, after all, is exactly what she is doing. "I feel," she says quietly, "myself to be on the precipice of a deep understanding -- of, if you'll forgive me, of comprehending physics on scales from the ultimately microscopic to the utterly macroscopic. Perhaps on the brink of synthesizing a theory that great minds, such as those four we met in Russia, have struggled to develop for upwards of two hundred years. More, of being able to put that understanding -- that theory -- into actual, real practice with my ability."

"The four scientists? Those organs trapped in machines?" Artemis asks with some surprise. "They achieved a missile capable of devastating the world, and a machine to travel through time. What...else be ye trying to achieve of theirs?" Artemis' suspicions are returning already.

The images above her hands flicker and evolve, and while they're mostly formulae found in physics, there are also images -- Einstein, Schroedinger, and others. "No, they are the ones who achieved time travel. It's others who achieved the Phoenix missile. And I don't want their physical creations, Artemis; I want their /calculations/." She hesitates, then creates in midair an equasion. "This," she says simply, "can either destroy the world, or save it. It's the Tsiolkovsky rocket equasion, an equasion that describes the motion of vehicles, of mass expelled as thrust, with the end result -- delta-v -- being the maximum change of velocity. It sends nuclear weapons to their targets halfway across the world; it sends people from Earth to Mars. This, Artemis, is science -- pure, unadulterated science. /This/ is what I seek. Not the sending of nuclear weapons, or even people into space -- but the knowledge. By preference," she admits, "I'd much, much rather send people up to explore."

Artemis watches the calculations, not understanding them. She's not a goddess of wisdom by far. Magda's explanation suffices, though. "And you trust if you were to share such knowledge, that none would twist it to destroy the world?"

Magda smiles a little. "This little bit? This is something we've known for, oh, two hundred fifty, three hundred years now. The question, Artemis, is /never/ about the science. It's /always/ about the people. I trust /more/ people to oppose those who would use such a thing to destroy the world than I trust the people who would bury such knowledge -- knowledge that is /always/ discovered. This equasion was derived in Great Britain, in Russia, in the United States, in Germany -- it's entirely possible it had been computed in China in ancient times. /Science/ will be discovered. The challenge -- the one you're concerned about -- is in using science responsibly. Focus on that, and not on whether or not the discovery itself is commendable or contemptable."

Artemis's expression flattens at thinking herself tricked. "You be losing thy mind over an equation already known for hundreds of cycles?" She can't understand why. She's truly lost on that. But Magda's point finally touches upon her reservations. "Of course I be concerned about those who would wield it and how. I see not how ye can split the two. As demonstrated in thy example, destroy the world, or save it. The same equation, twisted and applied differently. Can the equation do both as it be, untouched and unaltered? Or be it the addition of other knowledge that makes it dangerous?"

"Not this piece," replies Magda equitably, "but this is one of thousands of equasions rattling around in my skull just now."

She gestures the image into three parts: the missile-tipped rocket in a silo, the people-carrying rocket on a pad. "Not twisted. Simply used with different intent. The very same rocket, using the very same equasion, can do either one -- a weapon on one," and here she gestures to the silo rocket, "passengers on the other. Additional knowledge -- a nuclear weapon here," and a dozen equasions describing the construction and use of a 'physics package', "or life support and experiments here," and even more equasions that have gone into exploration appearing and fading around the crew "-- is always a useful element. Understood poorly, the equasion can cause death to those who seek to use it to advance exploration and knowledge; used, it cannot destroy the world, but it /can/ cause injury and death to scores. But the science does not decide if it is used for good or ill; the science simply /is/. The science that might destroy the world," and here she zooms in on the 'physics package', altering the central equasion to the famous 'E=mc^2', and changes the astronaut-carrying rocket to a nuclear power planet, "can also save it from its own global environment destruction. You want to forbid knowledge. You fail to understand that forbidding knowledge of science is like forbidding the action of science in the natural world itself -- useless, doomed to failure, laughable. Look there," and she gestures towards the daystar. "Nuclear fusion. Forbid it. Forbid curiosity. Forbid the desire to grow. Once again: it is not the science that concerns you, it is the misuse of it. Focus on the misuse, and not on the discovery -- or is your belief that all should grow to their fullest potential a false face, O Godflora Incapable of Lies? For once you begin to forbid knowledge, you begin to forbid growth."

Artemis is struck right at her hearts. "It be not false," she states sternly, falling into Magda's logical argument trap. The Godflora nearly bristles from the barbs at her honesty. A sure way to win an argument with an Ashildr is to call upon their sense of the truth of things. This is not so with a Do'jon like Nohrbor, for his kind are born diplomats and thus capable of deceit. "If...the pursuit of all science be the only path to their fullest potential...I cannot forbid it," she says with great strain at the admission.

Magda is not unaware of the stress and strain taking place within the Godflora's psyche; she is not /only/ a physicist, after all. "For most," she says quietly, "such a thing is impossible. Even for a species, it is a long and difficult road, and some things will inevitably be turned away from. There are those out there," and here she gestures towards the sky, and by implication the millions of intelligent species beyond Earth, "who have turned away from many things. Robotics; genetics; space travel. These are choices made by the society, by the people /in/ those societies, to not plumb a well of knowledge to one extent or another.

"But they are /choices/, to be made only by the people involved, and not by some external source, Artemis," states the silver-haired scientist. "Science simply /is/. The concern -- the only concern -- is the use to which one should put science. Growth or destruction? Growth can be terrible; destruction can be used in service to a greater growth. The knowledge of the results of the weapons used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki have informed our race's refusal to use them at any other time, and have served as a discouragement -- uncertain, admittedly, and not wholly successful -- to those who would become as terrible as Hitler. But ... progress is ever uncertain, ever hesitant and halting. And true progress comes mainly within, not imposed from without."

Artemis is begrudgingly swayed by Magda's impassioned discourse of the pursuit of all knowledge. "Thy words ring true. When ill is wrought upon the realms, 'tis the tyrant we fault, not the tools they wield. May ye always use such knowledge for the betterment of thy people from this day forward."

"I always have," Magda says quietly. "Just not always in the way people who've had the luxury to judge, and not the fear of the predator, would prefer. But I'm still around, and so ..." She smiles, with a bit of 'predator' to it. "The difference between a sheep, a wolf ... and what we are: sheepdogs. Protecting the one from the other, with perhaps some amount of guidance to the former." Her hands flip back and forth. "There's a fine line we walk. I think it to be a different one than others ..."